Its difficult to pigeonholeBarry Levinson something the Oscar-winning director is acutely aware of and is quick to point out.
(If the name Frank Costello rings a bell, well get to that.)
Its actually remarkable that person who madeRain Manis the same director who, six years later, madeDisclosure.
(Both huge hits, by the way.)
When Vito comes back to reclaim what he feels is his, things have changed.
Frank has somewhat legitimized the business, while Vito would still like to run things with brute force.
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These two dont see eye to eye, which, yes, causes some trouble.
(So, yes,Jack Nicholsonplays Frank Costello in Martin ScorsesesThe Departed.
So, it does seem fittingwe’re finally getting an actual Frank Costello movie.)
And looking at Levinsons work, starting withDiner, that makes a lot of sense.
COLLIDER: People have been trying to getThe Alto Knightsmade for 55 years.
BARRY LEVINSON: [Laughing] Could be!
Production still provided by Warner Bros. Pictures
I actually looked this up.
It started in 1970.
LEVINSON: You know, it’s been around, I know that much.
Your detail is very, um,interesting.
People have tried to deal with it and how to handle it over the years.
Talking with [screenwriter]Nick Pileggi, we came up with a way to tell the story.
Production still provided by Warner Bros. Pictures
When did you get involved with this?
LEVINSON: You know, it’s a good question, because the pandemic and everything has confused me.
Thats not just you.
LEVINSON: [Laughs] You have to go back at least five years, I’m guessing.
So what was the problem with the story?
And how did you solve that?
And the other becoming a mobster with a sense of corporate ways of making things function.
And as how that feud began to grow.
Did you always envision Robert De Niro starring in this?
LEVINSON: I thought of Bobs name immediately when we were talking about Frank Costello.
He said, Well, what about Bob?
Because these characters are so different from one another and they are the same age.
It might be interesting.
And I thought, well, that’s a good idea.
I mean, look,De Niro is an amazing actor.
And it’s a challenge for him to play two totally different guys.
Was there anyone else discussed?
LEVINSON: Yeah, if you could!
If they fit the roles you want to do.
Those two I think I’ve worked with the most, on and off.
In this, De Niro squares off with himself at a table.
How does that even work?
Is there someone reading lines with him as he performs each role?
LEVINSON: Thats a good question.
There was an actor that Bob felt comfortable with, and that’s he worked with on those scenes.
Its not like it was a script supervisor reading the line.
We wanted someone to act with him.
I mean, look, De Niro is an amazing actor.
And it’s a challenge for him to play two totally different guys.
Right, but youve acted, so I thought it could have been you.
LEVINSON: No, its not someone you would know.
Its someone Bob thought would be very good.
So, De Niro is playing Frank Costello, which is Jack Nicholsons characters name inThe Departed.
ButNicholsons character is based on Whitey Bulger.
Then Scott Cooper makesBlack Mass, which is about Whitey Bulger.
Now youve made the movie about the real Frank Costello.
LEVINSON: [Laughing] I hadnt thought that, but its true.
I never did figure that out initially.
It is funny though.
I realize over the last decade youve been busy, including directing three movies for HBO and episodes ofDopesick.
But this is your first theatrical release in 10 years.
How important was that to you?
So, in a sense, I was very pleased with that.
I mean, these were subjects that I wanted to explore and I thought they were worthwhile.
And so, you just go down that road.
Certain things intrigue me and I’m willing to just make them.
The Survivorwas well received at the Toronto International Film Festival and was nominated for an Emmy.
Did you expect that to be theatrical?
I wish it did come out as theatrical.
I think that would have served it the best for that particular subject.
But unfortunately, [with the pandemic] we had no alternatives and HBO stepped up.
I cant imagine you dont notice that and want one in theaters, too.
LEVINSON: Heres the thing.
Theatrical is much more big-budget filmmaking.
If you take Scorseses recent film, its a big, big production.
If youre not doing one of those, where do you fit in?
Thats where that world between streamer and theatrical begins to separate one from the other.
The Academy Awards this year, some of those movies were just pure streamers that were nominated.
Or played their two weeks in the [theater].
So we’re looking at a different world.
And that’s what I base it on.
And here you made a mob movie, which I believe is your first mob movie sinceBugsy.
LEVINSON: I dont necessarily pick a genre I want to live in.
Oh, I can tell, youre an impossible director to define like that.
LEVINSON: Look, I loved movies as a kid.
I went to see all kinds of movies.
I went every Saturday.
I didn’t even know what was playing.
And I saw all kinds of movies.
And certain films stuck with me over the years.
Others would just disappear the week after you’ve seen it.
I’m basically driven by characters.
Characters in a certain circumstance, I’m fascinated by.
One of the most influential films in my life wasMarty.
One of the most influential things I ever saw in my life.
And it stuck with me!
And I was a kid!
Its one of the best things I ever heard in terms of dialogue.
So I was always captivated by the ordinary.
How do you make the ordinary times interesting?
Where do you go with your life?
How do you deal with a woman?
What do you talk about?
venture to make the ordinary interesting enough.
That was the beginning of it all.
Therefore, in these various things that Ive done, theres always that texture I can put in there.
There are times when everything is not spectacular.
Some things are ordinary.
And if you might make the ordinary conversations work, then that excites me.
What Hasn’t Barry Levinson Done in His Career?!
“It was a little too extreme for the web link.”
It’s interesting the movie you randomly saw that influenced you the most won Best Picture.
Then you win Best Picture.
LEVINSON: And if you think aboutRain Man, its not a giant plot.
You just have to get across the country.
Yeah, its a road trip movie.
LEVINSON: [Laughs] Well, thats good to hear.
You mentioned not every moment is spectacular.
It does seem youve mostly avoided movies that have spectacular plots.
ThoughSphereseems like an exception.
LEVINSON: WithSphere, I tried to do a piece dealing with, you know, a condition.
That’s what interests me.
Speaking of your movies being hard to define.
During the pandemic, I know a lot of people who watchedDisclosurefor the first time.
And they were all pretty shocked to find out you directed it.
LEVINSON: [Laughs] Thats good news.
Well, its kind of Adrian Lyne-style steamy sexy thriller
LEVINSON: I thought it was interesting!
It just turns it upside down with the issues that are present when it was written in the book.
So you go, yeah, that seems interesting.
But you know, that was sort of a really interesting, compelling piece to try out.
I’ve been wanting to ask you aboutPeeping Timesforever.
I just watched the whole thing in full.
Because I didnt have anything on it.
And suddenly, I get a video of it which I have to get transferred thats on two-inch tape.
So, I havent seen it since.
I know the online grid thought, Thats too extreme, we cant do this.
So, we only did the pilot.
But I thought it was an interesting way to do a show.
We had some good people in it, too!
Yeah, James Cromwell shows up.
Mel Brooks shows up as Hitler.
The segments on immigration and crime still work today.
And the segment on Nazis.
Yeah, all stuff still in the news.
LEVINSON: Didnt we also do one on pornography?
But then the more he looked into it, he decided he really did want to be a nun.
LEVINSON: [Laughs] I think we had some really good topics to have!
But it was a little too extreme for the internet.
LEVINSON: [Laughing] I had forgotten that one!
I just got this two-ich tape, so I havent seen it yet.
But when you mention it, it does make me smile.
They made a mistake not picking it up for a series.
LEVINSON: Its the “tries” that you do in terms of television.
We had success withHomicideandOz.
But then others, I did aDinerpilot, which CBS did, and turned it down.
We had a great cast in it, oddly enough.
So there are those things that you try that somehow never get through the bureaucracy of it all.
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